ts not about maximising milk, its about minimising potential moo., And thats ALSO why youll see TfL/National Rail come down HEAVILY in the courts on anyone with real money who evades (e.g. We discussed everything that happened and even thought was a hard case he built a strong defense we the results could not have been better. January 2019, Really great service and very professional. Locked (England) Hi, I got a fare evasion summoning me to court, and Id like to know if theres a possible out of court That is, about the Brit who is the latest guy charged with pulling NYC-MTA into order. I then received a letterfrom Tfl saying that I was summoned to court forfare evasion. My Friday train is always half as empty as any other day. At 20 km the single fare is $1.78 and the breakeven point is 68, which means the monthly might as well not exist. Would certainly recommend. ), especially if I had just come from Paris. For the other 5%, you would just put in the starting and ending destination in a machine, and the machine would tell you the price. Its empire stretches from Peterborough to Tonbridge to Bognor Regis and Brighton. The UK has one of the most backward commuting settlements in Europe in this regard. Fares are an important component of public transport revenue; the taxes required to eliminate fares are significant enough that there are probably better uses for the money. Transport For London (TFL) has an aggressive prosecution policy when it comes to Fare Evasion. OK, youve nit-picked one thing from that report. If you require advice you should contact a solicitor. According to the present report, there is a common misunderstanding as to what commuting really is and how it should be accounted for. 1) BART has distance-based fares. On the subway the rate is only 4%, and there is somewhat more revenue loss on buses than on subways. Theyll be lucky if they dont get some Hong Kong-inspired rebellion! Thoroughly recommend! 24 Hour Emergency Contact 0207 837 3456 0207 837 3456, Home > Criminal Law > Fare Evasion Solicitors. I dont know if the employer paid for the rest (or whatever the discounted price was). Menu viscount royal caravan. I can say with all my heart, that no matter the case, you can truly rely on this law firm, and you can expect the most favourable result. 3) The San Francisco stations have public areas before the gates. If you do not reply, your case will be heard without you and this could mean you have to pay a higher fine. Instead, they create huge unnecessary demand by making the marginal cost of a trip 0, that often just replace a walk or a bike trip, in a system that did not encourage you to not pay the cost for each journey you make. Extra induced trips by a switch to 0 from 0.5 a trip, are of course relatively more often going to be new 0.8 km trips than 15 km long. Fare evasion is a criminal offenceand you may be prosecuted. BUT, this is expensive. A different reason to dislike monthly passes is that they work against people using bikes-walking-transit (and for that matter, cars) in different combinations. Because they wont embarrass a habitual, but theyll act like a gameshow buzzer highlighting to everyone else that CASUAL evasion is possible when that person gets away with it!, But you DO need enforcement, its just your dirty secret is that you dont really give a shit whether you catch anyone. A fully With a modern system, there is no extra inconvenience is actually charging according to how much you use the system. 2) They think its cool The fact that it irritates the travelling public cant be measured either so, with this mindset, what cannot be measured isnt measured and isnt taken into account. Broadly: smartcards/ticket machines that actually work and are easy to use, cleaner network/new trains/reliability and half-height barriers/visible staff will do ya. You give the keyword with that pass: Freedom. In any case, it should be clear that both Paris and Tokyo could be much more compact than they currently are. In fact I use my employer-subsidized subway season ticket precisely in this manner. Counter-productive user pays econo-rat bullshit. city bankers) because its both an easy PR win, AND a lovely big reminder to potential casuals not to try it themselves., And there you go. If in fact the Navigo card works like the old Carte Orange? It isnt broken down for different modes, because its a single system thats mostly fare-integrated, unlike London and very unlike American cities. Whereas today the program is a net revenue generator if it halves subway fare evasion, a level that already seems strained, within ten years, assuming normal fare escalation, it will need to cut fare evasion by about 90%, which is a complete fantasy. Its one of these things that on some level anyone can end up doing technically I did it once in grad school, when I brought in a tray of leftover cookies after a talk intending to take them back to Columbia, and someone on the train offered me $1 for 3 of them and I said yes. The question boils down to how New York crowding levels compare with those on the busiest urban POP line, the Munich S-Bahn trunk. For zones 1-2 for instance the weekly version is 35.10, monthly 134.80, yearly 1404, presenting some savings if youre able to commit to the amount up-front! Yeah, and did you read the very lengthy instructions about how to apply for the adult monthly travel card? Its a valid debate to have and a valid stance to have. Why use the argument for a monthly pass, which only very indirectly affect the issue you highlight above (and have tons of other effects), instead of pricing off-peak and peak useage directly? In most of the US, as you know, we need better service more than we need cheaper fares. Generally, the train companies argue that prosecutions are in the public interest because of the huge sums of money which are lost to the rail industry as a result of fare evasion. Moving the gates upstream is a consideration. London has monthly / yearly travelcards, but not on the capping system you have to pre-purchase them and theyre valid for the month / year. My other point is that Monthly or Annual Travel Passes are increasingly old news in the UK as Pay as you go with far capping is more popular, and also because 5 days a week commuting is on the decline. These costs are financial, environmental and also pertain to health and wellbeing. Naturally there is no algorithm or magic cost-accountancy software that can calculate those costs and benefits. So you need to LOOK like youre going after the habituals. Your argument against which kind of trips that are induced by marginal price costs of 0, just makes no sense. I have an appeal against conviction for fare evasion by TFL tomorrow, do you have any advice? I read the Vox article and I have to say, I told you so! This makes sense when people pay a fare, but many (if not most) users have unlimited monthly passes. Finally, as to user satisfaction, you may well be correct if youre talking of the Brits/Londoners. Whats the worst that can happen with open access? That doesnt make any sense. WebSo fare evasion is a civil offence not a criminal one. I am sure you are aware that there is a large perception bias about such things due to bias in reporting by media etc. So, you have to swipe-in AND swipe-out. New York would transition to a large discount through holding the monthly fare constant and hiking the single-ride fare 250km2). Like the time an older African-American woman got pissed off about younger African-American woman having a White boyfriend and decide to take it out on me, subjecting me to big rant on why African-American women can only really be sexually pleased by African-American men while hitting me with a plastic bottle. And the operators are normally satisfied. I imagine Stockholm looked elsewhere than Germany in the 1950s? This is also a common way of pricing telecom services, where the majority of costs arise from providing the network, not the marginal cost of using it. What happens if I just ignore the Notice? In Berlin, the breakeven point is 36 trips. Its not just the one study by Khosrokhavar, though IIRC its overall about 50% vs. 8%, so still factor-of-11 overrepresentation relative to population (and no, Muslims do not commit crimes at 11 times the rate of non-Muslims in France), just not the 2/3 in the original study. Change), You are commenting using your Facebook account. I would wholly recommend BSB Solicitors for anyone looking for help with fare evasion cases. Do not send or request any private messages for any reason. And you really have no excuse for not understanding this as I explained it all, here: I was worried he would bring the awful British views of public transit to the job, and sure enough, an extraordinary focus on fares and fare-evasion, increased policing and compliance, just couldnt be more wrong. In a country that has, stupidly, bet everything on London, GTR is utterly crucial to the national economy. The German-speaking world, as irrational as Britain and France about urban crime rates that are far lower than they were a generation ago, still treats the train and bus rider as a law-abiding customer unless proven otherwise. That is true in HK and Singapore which arent really inexpensive city-states but have transit use as a priority over road use. On many buses, drivers just let it go and let passengers board without paying, especially if nearly all passengers are connecting from the subway and therefore have already paid, as on the B1 between the Brighton Beach subway station and Kingsborough Community College or on the buses to LaGuardia. There are at least a couple in SF (24th and 16th and Mission) that do this. You really have no reason to be making this claim. about improving efficiency etc that has been utterly discredited. In todays Guardian. Some people will learn to dodge the inspectors, as is the case in Berlin, and thats fine; the point is not to get fare evasion to 0%, but to the minimum level net of enforcement costs. I recently tried to make a trip that was 10 minute drive and came up with 1.5 hours on the bus (that isnt counting waiting time for the bus to arrive or in the waiting room between when I get there and my appointment) needless to say I drove. To add in, one more point for passes is that many operators have a special program for organizations buying them in bulk (in other words, employers can buy passes for their employees at a discount (sometimes negociated, sometimes just depending on the number of passes bought). New Yorks 46 is still similar, esp. Susan Lenne, Clovelly, NSW. As you wrote, passengers should be able to get on and off trains quickly, with minimum friction. cheaper transit promoting sprawl. Shrinkage happens. Sacked London council on the pretext of fiscal irresponsibility over Livingstones Fair Fares (or Fares fair?) And London. Transportation becomes a stable part of a monthly budget, and it can be used as a solid basis for comparison for someone who might consider going carless. Claim the Commute schemes can take the form of season tickets subsidies (STS), fare receipt claims, bike purchases, bus route subsidies, or petrol receipt claims if the job absolutely requires car transport. As to the World Cup, I really dont think one should be obliged to design a mass transit system to cope with a once in ten or twenty year event. You can add NZ to that list, so it is a perfect correlation with immigrant nations. Both are negatively impacted by heavy commute subsidies. James provided an excellent service and put his excellent knowledge to help me get the best results in something that could have effected my whole professional and personal life in the UK. Ref: Brief history of the Paris metro. Terribly sorry. To Posters (it is important you read this section), Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different. | And on the other hand, by the relatively frictionless Paris and French system. Debatable, given the total lack of bike infrastructure and the fact that on the bus it was a 40 minute to an hour journey involving a transfer between buses. It involves negotiations and confidential ridership data, but boils down to passenger counts, done (I believe) once every three years. London generally gives off an impression of treating everyone who is not a Daily Mail manager as a criminal. If the breakeven point is in the high 30s, then this is much simpler even commuters get monthlies and therefore can ride off-peak for free. All sorts use the Paris Metro and even with its monthly card, is more expensive than either of those cities. Indeed if you can get most of your passengers/city reaching two yeses then your casual evasion will be well below a level worth caring about.. Fare evasion is punished in court by a fine of up to 1,000. Retrieved 2013-09-21. 3) Is evasion hard (i.e. throw pav at, but I was very modestly paid except having excellent medical, and benefits like the travel card and lunch vouchers tooagain, one paid 50% of face value which was typically the price of the Menu du Jour; most regular working Parisians use these for their lunch, and they are even valid at boulangeries for sandwiches etc (but you dont get any change if you dont spend up to the face value of the coupon). The Anglosphere does a shockingly poor job on this. I can only think you are British because this is the kind of logic by which they run their transit. Not being American I dont know my semi-automatic high-powered weapons at all well. In New York, the SBS system uses proof of payment (POP), but passengers still have to validate fares at bus stops, even if they already have paid, for example if they have a valid monthly pass. My single ticket to Windermere cost about $A200; by comparison, I can travel from Sydneys Central Station to Bomaderry on NSWs South Coast (a three hour journey, as is Windermere from London) for $2.50 on my seniors Opal Card. Or his father Lord, Baron Rees-Mogg? Germany is very law-abiding in stereotype. The new purely-commercial companies will naturally cherrypick only the busiest most lucrative routes. Making regular use more expensive will do the exact opposite of tempting them. Please see our reviews at the bottom of this page and contact our office on 020 7837 3456 for further details and to make an appointment. Today I interpret monthly passes a kind of rent-seeking among one group of transit users, who want other people to pay the cost for their transit use. It is advisable to seek the representation of a solicitor in this situation. In Paris, Navigo can be used for bikeshare, but the fares arent integrated, only the fare media. Its probably best to see if your Powers-That-Be ever manage to get past Fare Evasion Kindergarten first before doing that. Everything is proof of payment. For bigger cities, POP is appropriate. Writing a letter of representations offering to settle out of court so as to prevent prosecution. Germany is known for stereotypically being law-abiding, I am not sure how well their experience generalizes. Webtfl fare evasion settle out of courtmeat carving knife blank. Most people dont get on and off along the way. And the Overground runs nearly break even, which I think is what the report was complaining about. The flat fare is not really applicable to American cities, except possibly the Bay Area on BART. As someone unfamiliar with any type of legal proceedings they made sure I was updated through every step of the process and, ultimately, helped me to achieve a satisfactory conclusion. Japans railway privatization and broken up was also said as for the purpose of crushing railway union. BVG doesnt break even on fares, but thats because of buses, not the U-Bahn. The whole look at the poor person stealing bread, dont mind the banker stealing $1m. It is seemingly impossible to get comprehensive timetables (and costs) for all trains plying a certain route. No one will jump a fare gate 10 feet in front of uniformed police officer. Share this conversation Expert: Patrick;Lawyer replied 1 year ago. Probably not, in that I dont think these French companies that operate in other countries bring their bad habits back home (eg. In talking to Americans about fare evasion, I have found that they are generally receptive to the idea of minimizing revenue loss net of collection costs. This one said the writer was exaggerating the cost, and that there were many choices to get the price down a lot. Anyway, the reason London doesnt have these is because of their nitpicking fare system: they need you to swipe out to calculate the fare. Which brings us to casuals, Casual fare evasion is a thing done by normal people, regardless of age/money/class. I wouldnt feel comfortable hiking the monthly fare in New York at all until the pay-per-ride fare hit $3.50, maybe even $4. The greater sprawl is mostly because Tokyo is the larger capital of the larger country, with more than triple the population of Paris in terms of metro area. For local operation (bus, tram, regional trains) they use vehicles which contain a passenger counting system, counting the number of people getting off and on. Of course efficiency is important but it is not achieved by those approaches, no matter how theory predicts it. That is what happens in the UK where taxes are high and user-charges are high (and as it happens with a system run on econocratic lines, the service is poorer; a trifecta merde sandwich). Thats Fare Evasion 101. because it is so easy to do. I mention it because it brings up awkward issues of those subsidies: do they extend to these private entities? Even though the Key card offers pay-per-ride functionality in addition to calendar passes, its $10 up-front cost and the difficulty of maintaining a payment balance force economically-marginal riders to use cash instead. The Special Settlement Conference Your second point sounds like moral panic. In terms even an econo-rationalist (rational plan, Martin Kolk ) should understand: it works best when it is nearly frictionless. My fare dodges in Berlin happened once before I got monthlies and once on my way to the airport on my current trip, in a month when I didnt get a monthly since I was only in Berlin 6 days. In the context of most US metros, I think looking at transit fares in isolation is a mistake. We are seeing more an more examples of clients being summoned to court over unpaid fares of as little as 1.50. Its a comparable region to Greater Tokyo (the most common Itto Sanken borders) which includes a lot of farmland and is predominantly wilderness. (England) Hi, I got a fare evasion summoning me to court, and Id like to know if theres a possible out of court settlement option from tfl as Im not trying to stain my record. In New York City, a spate of attention has come recently to policing Americas largest transit system. One should also note that providing useful public transport service does not scale to the level of individual trips or trip lengths. Any maintenance on these escalators requires wearing haz-mat suits. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Typical nit-picking scrooges.) A criminal conviction can negatively affect job prospects, particularly in certain fields and can impact visa applications to some countries. If fares generally bring in X amount of revenue, then why would increasing tax revenue by X be bad. But no other American city has that excuse. In Paris, various classes of low-income riders, such as the unemployed, benefit from a solidarity fare discount of 50-75%. If you through more honest pricing for the actual demand can avoid both things such as the Second Avenue Subway or horrible overcrowding that is a very good thing. The simply DO NOT have the money to pay so threats of fines are also useless against them., For the LARGER category of habituals though, its either because: However, in states such as California -- where cities and transit authorities can choose to make fare evasion a civil violation under Section 99580 of the Public Utilities WebTransport for London (TfL) is strengthening its measures to combat fare evasion, which costs Londoners millions of pounds a year and is an issue the Mayor is determined to tackle. Contact emilia@chancellors.com to see how we can assist you. https://pedestrianobservations.com/2019/07/18/free-public-transportation/#comment-61991. The norm here is that big cities fund urban rail out of fares; the U-Bahn breaks even here, and I think also in Munich. This thread has been locked by the moderators of r/LegalAdviceUK. On social fares, as on many other socioeconomic issues, it is useful for Americans to see how things work in countries with high income compression and low inequality under the aegis of center-left governments. So its not really that Berlin doesnt care if criminals discourage ridership among law-abiding customers, its that Berlin doesnt treat every rider as a criminal who must constantly be watched and monitored. No surprise it is one of things that makes some vote for Corbyn/Labour (re-nationalise the railways). It was an absolute dream if you lived in Paris. Sometimes the police are called. tfl fare evasion settle out of court proceedings of the international conference on learning representations. Of course the Oyster card tech (copied from Hong Kongs Octopus) could have fed the Brits propensity to burden their fare systems with all kinds of conditional time and zoning regulations that would have allowed them to painlessly pump up the cost to the customer. Seattle recently abolished off-peak fares for one transit operator because occasional riders found the fare structure overly complex and it was dissuading usage. (LogOut/ And Herbert, arent you German? The American moral panic about fare evasion regrettably goes far beyond New York. since New Yorkers ride off-peak so much less than Parisians. And therein lies the cause of the problem: the types who can think econometrically wont think in terms of long-range strategic planning (because it is impossible to quantitate neatly, and involves that nebulous thing, vision) so they do the only thing they can, which is tactical short-termism, to optimise current resources blah, blah. In smaller operations, I actually encountered that the driver just counted the number of people getting on and off (well, that was in a midi bus, or even smaller one. No one is questioning that it could be done by technology. But if the choice would be between transit to have to look up the fare for, biking, or taking a car, Id just opt for the car. These activities are really not the same fare evasion really is something to be discourage, just not with batons. In both cities, there are further discounts for annual tickets. its the poor who suffer from more from dirty streets and parks. Eighty six percent of people in the UK do not fully understand the rules on rail penalty fares, and as a result and could have criminal sanctions made on them inappropriately, according to BSB Solicitors national survey. Having a pricing structure of a very high marginal price for trip 0-25, followed by a 0 cost for trip 25-999 is just bad design. @Eric2 Some of the sprawl was developed during the bubble era , but the public transportation was scrapped after the bubble burst. When I had an unlimited pass in New York, Id travel from Eastern Queens near the city limits to Manhattan for school on the weekdays, and go to Flushing on the weekends. Is France really going to repeat this nonsense? At some level its just normal commerce. The outcome is predictably polarization and is just as disastrous here as for any other dimension of US public services. I guess there could be some aspiration to greatness. Webtfl fare evasion settle out of courtaripartnerconnect login 03/06/2022 / jobs at stafford leys school / en winchester' movie true story / por / jobs at stafford leys school / en winchester' movie true story / por In Europe there are usually other societal goals for public transport than just fiscal efficiency. Is that recent? I get why that is, but you really want to go somewhat lower than 45 on these grounds. I cant find the article, but there is some evidence that enforcement is largely unimportant. Solano Verde Water District. Labour will scrap the bewildering and outdated fares and ticketing system that discriminates against part-time workers, discourages rail travel and excludes the young and low paid.. San Fransisco went to POP for their buses, and fare violations and dwell times both went down substantially. Two years ago, BART announced that it would supplement its fare barriers with proof-of-payment inspections, done by armed cops, and lied to the public about the prevalence of such a belts-and-suspenders system. In fact, the UKs disaster of rail privatisation saw much higher subsidy from central government than before privatisation! Ill admit my attitude is very conditioned by direct experience. I agree with the first letter writer. The system is a horrible mess seemingly designed to trap one into expense unless you choose conditions that are no ones first choice. The Wiki section on France is truly pathetic (not worth publishing or reporting but I am sure it was): A 2009 study found that the share of immigrants in the population has no significant impact on crime rates once immigrants economic circumstances are controlled for, while finding that unemployed immigrants tend to commit more crimes than unemployed non-immigrants.[83] A study by sociologist Farhad Khosrokhavar, director of studies at the EHESS, found that Muslims, mostly from North African origin, are becoming the most numerous group in [French prisons].[84][85] His work has been criticized for taking into account only 160 prisoners in 4 prisons, all close to northern Paris where most immigrants live. You can sometimes find left-populists here who promise great fare reductions, but these just soak up subsidies that could go to better service. Because the industry pushes such solutions onto the operators, and considering that the responsible ones have not much of a clue, they fall for it and get screwed. ), * Paris + Petite Couronne are 762km^2 with a population density of 8.8k/km^2, * The 23 Wards of Tokyo are 619km^2 with a population density of 15.1k/km^2, * le-de-France is 12,012km^2 with a population density of 1.0k/km^2, * Itto Sanken is 13,500km^2 with a population density of 2.6k/km^2, * Kanto + Shizuoka (wide enough to cover pretty much every Tokyo commuter including distant Shinkansen suburbs, though is dominated by wilderness and includes many towns that dont have commute links with Tokyo at all) is 40,200km^2 with a population density of 1.1k/km^2. being applied to NYC-MTA. i.e. This would be different from London, where Underground makes a sizable profit, and Overground about breaks even. Paris RER-A (the direct equivalent of CrossRail) opened in 1977 and today carries 300m pax p.a.. Today Paris has 5 RER lines which carry more than 1bn pax p.a.. About 44 years later, and 75 years after it was first proposed, CrossRail will cost north of 18bn and the scale of opportunity cost that can only be imagined. Southern is a story of rail failure. It is not like we are arguing about some fantasy scenarios, I am just saying that the West could adopt systems more similar to the East (where it evidently works very well). Hi! Every commute brims over with aggro. Because the casuals (or potential casuals) will be outraged. Aditya Chakrabortty, 19 July 2016. For a small % this is an economic decision. It is taking all the land area of Ile de France and ignoring that huge parts of it are either farmland (eg. R.H August (2018), I would definitely recommend BSB Solicitors. V.S November 2018, I recently contacted BSB Solicitors in relation to a potential fare evasion prosecution. A postal requisition will display the date for a court hearing. Not the worse thing that could happen but not a pleasant ride either. (I did turnstile-jump in Paris once, with a valid transfer ticket that the turnstile rejected, I think because Pariss turnstile and magnetic ticket technology is antediluvian.) When videos of aggressive arrests surfaced, protesters demonstrated against the police presence by jumping turnstiles en masse. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/19/southern-rail-failure-crush-unions The monthly pass users are the majority of transit users, at least in a city with good fares to encourage lots of people to use it. The penny pinching Japanese private railroad operators seems very able to operate and plan efficient transit decades ahead. ERG was the company that designed HKs card (but they went bust and London managed to steal this tech for almost nothing) and were give the contract to implement a similar system for Sydney. My tickets were purchased six weeks in advance and were second class non-reserved and off-peak and this is supposed to be the cheapest option. I had been using it for a few weeks when I was stopped by aticket inspector. Finally, monthly passes are regressive for people with very low incomes, and uncertain cash flows, as they may simply not be able to make bulk purchases.. But New York fare evasion is mostly a bus problem: the rate on buses is 22%. And it shows little sign of improving. This is actually a win-win situation, because the operator gets the money early on, and the employer can save parking spaces. Likewise, even though the Helsinki Metro is profitable, it works in conjunction with buses, trams, and commuter trains that are not, its just that theres an imputation of revenues by mode/operator offered in Helsinki and (sort of) Berlin but not in Paris.

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