Otherwise, you start getting limited reviews and your compensation goes down.Obviously there was no advice in this post, but I thought it was an interesting observation, and perhaps the company can learn something from this viewpoint. There is no better investment at Microsoft for tuning your career. It's usually too late at that point. Your lead. If so, then you're going to have a hard time finding senior IC spots anywhere. Is this a normal situation and should I not be worried?MCS has different pressures regarding levels. > Lots of very true points. Browse all Microsoft Software Engineering Manager salaries Frequently asked questions So no time like the present to practice where you can. I just want to grow, and I am aware that it does not translate to a promotion always. For instance, software development engineers generally come in at Level 59,. It would be the pinnacle of dumbness. A) What is the market facing title for L66 and above levels at Microsoft?B) What is the equivalent at Microsoft of Amazon L7?C) Rank the below titles at Microsoft in decreasing order of seniority: e.gPrincipal > Senior Director > Director > Senior Manager > Partner, Go to company page Results-focused: they are focused on getting great results and don't entwine their ego to particular solutions. A broad perspective matters.3) This is all about stack rank. The current distribution is simply pathetic.. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) Ugh, not good, not good at all.>Finance is cutting 10% of work force. From my perspective (L67) here's what you need to nail:1. There are definitely projects you can work on with your manager to increase your visibility, but if things don't happen right away just keep at it.Your manager should be able to give you fairly specific feedback on where you stand in your skip-level's eyes. I sympathize with folks who feel they have been shafted however to quote a cliched saying: the common factor between you and all your problems is you. Agree with all the comments that this is a great post, and was just as true 5 years ago as it is now.My story, which might help the college kids: I began my career at MS out of college as a 10/59, rocketed to 62 - and then sat.I left in 2002 and started building a career at other places, and can now look back at when I left, slap my hand on my head, and say of course I wasn't promoted - I did nothing to build a positive, defensible relationship with my skip-level mgr, and my real influence outside of my individual team was nonexistent. Amazon, Go to company page But, if you have the possibility of finding a position that you will really enjoy, where your goals and those of Microsoft are fairly close, then your long-term potential will be higher. High energy, result oriented senior executive with 20yrs+ of comprehensive Sales, Marketing & Operations management experience in IT (Solutions & Services) in GCC region, with a record of. I saw several far more technically skilled people in the group who deserved this that were passed over. Impossible. Mgmt, MSFT levels: CEO > VP > Partner(Director) > Principal > Sr. Eng > Eng 2 > Eng 1. Sorry for going dark for so long. I am soliciting ideas to reduce cost in this blog. In this testing times what will motivate the mgr to put you ahead of him/hers? Here are some things from my perspective.1. great post. I'm interested in hearing your stories of success, mentorship, and turning a career that was off-path back on-track. Mini himself is quite high level and knowledgable. If you read CSPs this is the underlying message more or less. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) Risk and return are related. Then perhaps you're stuck at L62. If it is "Absolutely!" I think folks like that are the one-offs who slipped by and most likely (given the scrutiny I see more and more) certainly wouldn't slip by today. great post mini. I'm just going to try and emphasize a few points here:* As mentioned by many folks, it is important to own your career and hence plan you promotion, discuss it with your manager, and most importantly follow up on it. . You know you want to get to that other bar, but that chasm in between is fraught with risk. Those people are almost all Level 62's with few prospects. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work.So my question to the more experienced is this - how does one get the attention of management when they are focused on their own problems, their favorite underlings (of which I am not one), and when there is not enough work to go around? How long do people usually sit at L62 in MCS? (this is never a bad idea anyway) Then, if you are doing as good a job as he, he will want you as a peer in level, if not, then he can help you grow. Its usually comes down to do it and be unhappy or leave. I am a troll. About Top-performing Senior Director in Digital Strategy & Commercial Development, with 25 years success in top-tier business across new Tech, data and digital in many sectors driving strategy,. Let's connect and I will happily share more about my background and accomplishment and how I can contribute to the success of your organization. Microsoft employees make an average base salary of $208k & a total compensation of $280k. This helps us sort answers on the page. You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your customers to hand it to you.Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? Wow. kc. You must emphasize the goal of understanding how to improve, not just tagging a higher paycheck. When does that year start? Good luck with that. For many in our sub, MCS seems to be the place of incompetent managers and just a pitstop to somewhere else. Rather nice site you've got here. Satya Nadella. .css-1uhsr4o{margin-right:8px;}Get Paid, Not Played. Also, go mine some of Dr. Brechner's Hard Code columns. But they don't have the same visibility that your manager has in your specific org. My likely response would be "congratulations! Great post. Then you're on the path to higher levels. B.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, M.Sc in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, PhD in Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Electronics, Designing and implementing Software and Hardware Systems, Benchmarking and validating Software and Hardware Systems, Developing innovative solutions and publish papers and patents, Managing teams and keep track of progress, Predicting market trends, identifying market risks, Identifying future opportunities, preparing company roadmap. Are you sure you know what your boss wants? Some were also not very sexy/fun problem but they were all critical to ship. Satya Nadella. Harder for L64. If you get caught in a review and someone hits a fastball by you and you stumble, the people above you suddenly have fears that you might stumble when they and you are in front of the person who controls their careers. I guess they are fallible humans too. I'm a level 66 dev (architect). Ready? I have some colleagues now stuck with a career that they dont really want because they move up too much. My experience, I joined MSFT at 63 and in 3.5 years I am at 65. The level of scrutiny by my management chain creasedup to the point where leader of our group4 levels above me in the management chain had to approve the promotion. If that means doing something you don't want to do, you might need a different manager (or company). And in my experience they are *eager* to get your skills and your lower level payroll expense! For example, some are principal individual contributors that just stayed for too long in a group and became essential, but now want to move on and cannot do that, either because their skills are obsolete or because they simply cannot go to a new startup team at such high level without any management responsibility, and they are untested managers. That's not going to change in six months (which I learned). If you push too hard or threaten to leave, you will be written off immediately. It's hard for L63. Executing on what you have now at a high rate/quality level.2. For those impatient folks who want to move up every 18 months, watch out. Go for the team that offers the best package right during the transfer. The PM team loved having my technical expertise freely available, and I actually really like designing features too.Anyway, two simple things, but I think what Mini said about not doing this IN ORDER to get promoted is key. Today's top 83,000+ Senior Director jobs in United States. * Stability at Microsoft is a two-edged sword. Executive Vice President and Chief Human Resources Officer. This can play a bigger role even than how many times you broke the build, caused a bug, etc. Know when your market worth changes with our verified salaries newsletter, See exactly how much your competitors pay. HTH. My boss even made mistakes. Successful people looooove to expound upon the secret to their success. I left eight years after that when I realized that L66 wasn't going to happen for me.The bottom line: If your boss isn't pushing for you, get them on your side or leave the group. The conclusion: its price today! Skilled in Surfer 8, MS Project, Primavera, Microsoft Excel, Analytical Skills, Customer Service, Customer Success Management, Vendor Management and Sales. "Ain't seen nothing yet" is a more popular variant of the same due to a song with that title and refrain. * Sell yourself: I know it sounds odd and contradictory. Finally, I think my experience proves that people who may be on theslow track to advancement can turn things around with the right commitment and management. So far, we all appear to have jobs, but man, what a shocker, I thought ours was one of the more stable teams.Not sure what happens to our Director, he seemed a bit shocked himself when he delivered the news today. .css-1odorsr{display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1ln5qhx{-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1dmvvgc{margin:0;color:#0060b9;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}Get your salary negotiated .css-1npej63{-webkit-user-select:none;-moz-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none;width:1em;height:1em;display:inline-block;fill:currentColor;-webkit-flex-shrink:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrink:0;-webkit-transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;font-size:1.25rem;margin-left:-4px;}or your resume reviewed by the real experts - recruiters who do it daily. I joined Microsoft at L63 in Office and found it to be a freakshow of people NOT working together but understanding that no team work was better for getting a promotion FAR better than I did having come from the Valley. Paradigm Shift: In order to achieve the next level of competence to some extent you need to temporarily let go of some of your hard gained skills in order to make the leap and try some new things. When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. I have actively helped people leave MS who were topped out at level at MS but who wanted to do something else. If you know higher leveled people in another org, ask them to poke holes in your proposals. Its a natural consequence of the learning curve. Then do it.Yeah yeah, that's an oversimplification. Oracle. L65 here, worked up from L59 (actually, 10 in the old system).The key is always to keep your eye on the goal. You havent [sic] seen nothing [sic] yet. The average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, which is 65% lower than the average Microsoft salary of $500,742 per year for this job. But if you can collaborate with others you can help accomplish much more than youll ever be able to accomplish individually. Thankfully, those are relatively uncommon. Seriously - if you wave a competitor's offer in my face what have you told me? First, self criticism to identify weaknesses. The way to get to a higher level is to increase the scope of your contributions.In our group (somewhere in STB), L63 seems to begin with having at least 2 reports. Microsoft Pull the ripcord. I got to point where I resented my manager so much I could barely talk to him. below 63 one has low influence and above 64, it is more strategizing and less execution.Overall, my experience has been that promotion is the effect of results and good work. Look closely, and you'll probably find that this person is working symbiotically with someone else who masters those skills while lacking others.YES, there are people who've been promoted because they've simply "been there" for a long time. But it should definitely keep me up in the top of the class, and getting a nice review score + kudos + a job well done with results is a reward in itself (that I crave for more than the actual promotion).I have given this suggestion to Lisa, but I have not seen any action so far. For technical and management track, the job level start from 57 and continues till 80. The scope and situations have become more and more challenging over time. How accurate is this most likely Total Pay range (base + additional) of $396K-$652K/yr? Learn how this feature works. Here are some thoughts from a L62-er who truly wants to accept whats keeping me from getting to 63 and work on it. I'm at 62, have been for lo, these many years. Copyright 2008-2023, Glassdoor, Inc. "Glassdoor" and logo are registered trademarks of Glassdoor, Inc. I'm not even thinking about level 63 at this point. I suspect the former because there's no point in a manager telling you that you got promoted when you didn't. Specifically, that is a tendency to try and do everything themselves, taking too much individual accountability as opposed to building a v-team across orgs etc etc.Most managers in Microsoft - in my personal experieince - are competent managers. Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company?Not giving quite as snide a response as the previous posterAsk your management. Benefits can add thousands of dollars to your offer. Your commitments should already provide you with milestones to set as your goals. You have to strive to get the KEY to the boss's heart and brain. The true professional with loads of potential is left to Sulk. Don't try to counter with stock levels argument as that is more convoluted, and given the current economic debacle's effect on our stock price..I understand that folks want to be Senior this, and Principal that but the truth is that it is mostly a fetish for some big sounding titles. It's a good time to flip back through that. I think you should play some games while searching for you L63 promotions. What does that look like in your mind? When I gave notice, my PUM was in my office within an hour showing me stock levels at 65 and 66, willing to restructure my position pretty much to my liking. Would they give you the level if you were not already a Microsoft employee? So he is looking to become partner this year on the team's work. Success breeds Success: I remember reading an article about an extensive study to determine the best predictor of a stocks price tomorrow. If I was looking at reducing costs this isn't exactly where I'd set my sights first but again this is Microsoft we're talking about. . What an achievement! Will there be room on your team? We have covered both technical and management track at Microsoft. Do a brownbag for your VP level group, record it and send out the link to everyone. L8=Partner/GM. But people who move often grow faster because of two things (in my opinion.) I'm an SDE, so a large part of my time in the product cycle is spent fixing bugs. I have known some that do what is barely enough for "achieve" just because it is safe. Alternate to your left hand appropriately when tired. This past year I had what I thought was an outstanding year, was given a 20%, but not promoted to L63. I can vouch for the efficacy of this mantra.MS definitely does a good enough job on career progression and offering diverse options. you need to hit the pause button for one big time-out regarding where you are, where you're going, and what needs to change. And your manager will not hate you for thinking about switching -- if you are a great employee to begin with, he will just want to keep you around. Tech corporation VPs are execs in the have-own-budget sense, and are usually the first position on the ladder that has this kind of control. I've been 3.5 years at 62 and re-orged every year in mobile.Any ideas on how to carry greats results of one role into another through a re-org. They want you to succeed, they want the team to succeed. Amazon This way I can be in a better position to show that I am a "absolutely!" This is where I agree with Mini regarding taking MSFT back to the good ol' lean, mean, and efficient company we enjoyed. Being irreplaceble is bad because you spend more times on coding/fixing bugs and there is less time to work on your visibility. Owning big features, knowledge about code base, ability to help your peers - irrelevant. Being a TS can work the same way. If you have a good manager he/she will ensure the relevant peers know all about it. I also agree with the requests to have a discussion related to 65+.Anyway, I have seen a very healthy discussion going on here, and most of the thoughts I wanted to share have been mentioned. Most gravitate to safe work that's in their comfort zone or work they enjoy. I breezed to L63 and shortly after to L64 within a year. I am working towards it would say am there 75% of the way. Why? Eng, Go to company page +1 on the level balancing difference in subs.As someone who has transferred employees to/from corp/sub both directions and has promoted a bunch of folk, the corp level for a role is 2 numbers higher than the equivalent sub one. They are trying to get attention from upper levels more harder then you. Don't discount the power of a mgmt chain that believes in you. Learn everything I can about the technology (I'm a PM and don't have a CS background so I work extra hard at this and ask lots of questions.)2. Microsoft, Go to company page Fourth, repeat ad infinitum. Is this a normal situation and should I not be worried? Should I trust my manager or is this just one more of his demonstrations of poor management skills? Go and restart in another org and dig through their historical biz and people stability during your informationals. It can be a really discouraging time in your career, but if you can get past it youre headed for another amazing growth curve like the one that got you to level 62!

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