Michael caught the solar power bug after purchasing components to cobble together a small off-grid PV system in 2008. Furthermore, the sustained overvoltage inverter protection set point shall be set to 258V. But you probably would not recover the cost of the battery within its lifetime. I suspect that it is likely, that that they are all signaled equally, not in truth I dont know for sure. Please stay on topic. I have not been able to get an answer from Growatt Australia yet, it seems there is a bit of a cover-up going on. Reminder: In Australia, you are allowed to install 33% more panel capacity than the inverter capacity for example, a 10 kW inverter can have up to 13.33 kW of panels attached. The distributor deals with that by putting the voltage slightly up at the sending end. hbbf`b``3 I j So having a powerwall is way less useful for helping with an export limit than you would think. Powercor's technical assessment aims for these works to enable at least 80% of new solar applications to export 5 kW. Larger inverters that are export limited are allowed on a case by case basis. Here at SolarQuotes, we had been hearing quite a few complaints about Powercors zero export limits. This gives the advantage of having a new system covered by a new set of warranties. And, depending on the circumstances of each individual household, 10-15 kW of total panels generating capacity, with limiting export to the grid, to 5kW, could provide better for the months with less available solar radiation, to lessen the demand for grid electricity, peaking on a seasonal basis. But, now, Goodwe have the GW5000-MS inverter, which, from what I have read, is apparently allowed in WA, for a single phase SWIS grid connection, and, that inverter is a 5kW inverter, that has a maximum panels generating capacity; See image at http://www.johnrogers.com.au/battery_charging_noon.jpg. you aren't allowed to export any power from your solar system to the grid. Depending on their location, some may be constrained to a lesser export level or even no exports at all. For example, if you are export limited, only the Envoy-S with consumption monitoring can provide this. And doing so potentially puts you running in a non compliant state. You could buy a battery, charge it on the weekend and export during week nights. All these profiles need to dance carefully around the problem. To get your quotes, please enter your postcode: AEMC: Electricity Prices To Continue To Fall, http://www.johnrogers.com.au/battery_charging_noon.jpg, http://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/kw-and-kwh-what-is-the-difference/, Why Australian Solar Installers Love Austrian Fronius Inverters, Tesla Powerwall Price Takes A Tumble In Australia, "Snail Mail" Home Battery Offers: Be Wary, New Minimum VIC Solar Feed-In Tariffs Locked In, Glenrowan Solar Farm Construction Gets Cranking. Website link shows system producing well over 10 kW. And also is it worth installing solar with 0 kWh limit with self consumption around 20-30%( payback 6-7 years). Export limiting generally isnt permitted. Aside from that, when you have high resistance lines, there is a voltage drop over their length. To get your quotes, please enter your postcode: Flexible Solar Exports To Ramp Up In South Australia, Australian Solar Systems Interest Index: September 2021, Why Australian Solar Installers Love Austrian Fronius Inverters, Tesla Powerwall Price Takes A Tumble In Australia, "Snail Mail" Home Battery Offers: Be Wary, New Minimum VIC Solar Feed-In Tariffs Locked In, Glenrowan Solar Farm Construction Gets Cranking. Still a very long payback period, but not as long. No matter how badly you may want to export limit your solar system, it can only be done in locations where its permitted. Or is there a build up of voltage in the system? The following is a list of the areas in case youve been missed. 1. If you are using Enphase microinverters which is extremely likely the whole system can be export limited using the Enphase Envoy gateway. Interesting article. Nominal Output Power (W) 5000 Despite the low feed-in tariff you will receive it can still be worthwhile, especially if you can shift some electricity consumption to the middle of the day. The word first can be confusing. 0000027818 00000 n They want to do it there way and it seems my request complicates things for them and I dont hear back, bar a couple. JackD 1 year ago. 0000005359 00000 n There may well be a tipping point in battery prices where a drought of mid day solar will be followed by very little evening use and possibly large numbers of households abandoning the grid altogether. So what goes throgh the meter, in either direction, is the difference between what you generate and what you use. And Set Power Limit to 100%. Anyway you are probably not supposed to be messing around with the profiles without agreement of your DNSP. The solar PV system is connected to the network via an inverter. (2nd one APPROVAL/SITE SPECIFIC CONDITION(s): Total Solar Export must be limited to 5kW). Real names are preferred - you should be happy to put your name to your comments.2. Unfortunately, SAPN wont allow more than 5 kilowatts of inverter capacity on an SWER line. Do the inverters prevent the production of energy by the solar panels when an export limit would otherwise be exceeded? 0000029011 00000 n Can anyone shed any light for me? 0000038030 00000 n Households and small businesses that generate electricity using solar panels, wind turbines, or other small-scale generators, can feed back any unused electricity into the electricity grid for other customers to use. "Some of these customers may have received approval to export since, due to network improvements made since their connection." Sorry if dumb question. Victorias United Energy Network Area: A large chunk of Melbourne on the east side Port Phillip Bay and the Bayside Peninsula. 0000093063 00000 n AS4777.2:2015 has some rather low default recommendations, which can be tweaked up as no doubt my profile has allowed. The data has 5KW flat lining confirming more is being generated. Its only possible to go larger with a zero export limit: https://www.powerwater.com.au/customers/power/solar-power-systems/pv-class-requirements. Why my Power Limit is set to ON with the % whereas her Power Limit is set to OFF and she has been exporting. If you are in the solar industry - try to get to the truth, not the sale.5. Metered and a non metered version. The new inverter standard AS/NZS 4777.2:2020 has new inclusions to address grid stability issues - a new feature that is necessary to further enhance the hosting capacity to accommodate more solar and renewable energy systems. Still, few people will want more than the 13.33 kilowatts of panel capacity single phase homes can generally install: The Bad: Homes with single-phase power on the main grid can have up to 5 kilowatts of inverter capacity but can usually get around this limit by installing an export limited solar inverter of up to 10 kilowatts. More information about the program and how customers can get the most out of their rooftop solar is available at www.powercor.com.au/solar-energy 0000001260 00000 n One thing I find is that Voltage control works well: instead of the inverter resetting if the voltage gets too high, my inverters roll back output, so it actually helps my neighbors too because their inverters reset less often. Put down your weapons.3. I am not sure whether it has been explicitly explained, but, what exactly, is the limit of panels generating capacity, that is covered by the federal solar panels rebate? The MSO helps us manage and keep our network safe for solar customers. 0000004736 00000 n The earth is used as one conductor which has a higher resistance than a copper wire. Can I share my power excess with me neighbour? I could not convince him that I knew what I was talking about! He first became interested in environmental matters when he was four years old after the environment tried to kill him by smashing fist sized hailstones through the roof of his parents Toowoomba home. Below is the email response I received from Powercor. What am I missing? I could easily share my excess power for the time I am not irrigating my crops. In my case, I have N & W facing panels, My inverters clip to 5Kw for a few hours, but I can still export a reasonable amount. If so, it would make replacing the whole system more viable which is exactly what I wanted to avoid (and such a waste!). In reality, the losses will be considerably less. What I find is installers dont seem to like it when I tell them my plan. Three-phase homes can install up to 15 kilowatts of inverter capacity or 30 kilowatts with export limiting, except in South East Queensland where special permission is required from Energex to install an export limited inverter over 15 kilowatts. By the time he was eight, he was already focused on using the power of the sun to stop fossil fuel emissions destabilizing the climate. Yes I do have Enphase micro-inverters and an Envoy gateway, though not enough sunny roof to exceed 5kW, so my interest is rather academic but real. Can you provide comment and evaluation of power tracing please. Hi All, 0000010080 00000 n We have a 3kwh system and are really using as much during the day as we can. Wouldnt it be better for the inverter to display its total actual potential output under current conditions? The current Envoy they will be selling is the Envoy-S. Before that was the straight Envoy which did not have the consumption monitoring / metering needed to do export limiting. xref Am planning to install solar 6.6 kWh system and upon checking with powercor they are giving export limit as 0 kWh. Many Australian homes are not allowed to export more than 5 kW to the grid. Its moderately cheaper and the solar feed-in tariff youll receive will lower your electricity bills and increase the amount of clean energy available for others to use. You could have mentioned that SWER stands for Single Wire Earth Return and why that matters. Plus a Tesla Powerwall 2. A 5 kilowatt inverter will never supply more than 5 kilowatts of power no matter how many kilowatts of panels it has. Export limiting does limit the inverter output, but only as needed to keep the export power below the limit. 260 It clicked, not long after I wrote the comment, My 10 kW system will not go above 10 kW unless my house battery is charging and then it can go to 13.25 kW. Unfortunately, the meter companies and inverter manufacturers cant get their shit together, and the utility meters refuse to talk to the inverters. If the transformer capacity is limited, you could install solar initially with a low export limit (eg 1 kW) and then have your export limit increased when the transformer was . Is this perhaps one of the well-kept secrets about the reality of residential solar production in Western Australia, one that neither the solar installers or inverter manufacturers, let alone Synergy or Western Power want to be publicly known? When a home is exported limited, all the power the solar inverter can produce is available for the home to use. Heres the Fronius Smart Meter that you need if you want to export limit a Fronius inverter it will add about $500 to the cost of the system: An example of how export limiting works You have an inverter thats exported limited to 5 kilowatts. Phone, email, give us feedback or make a claim. In exchange, the customer receives a small rebate on their bill for every kilowatt-hour (kWh) they export. After all, Im a big picture kind of guy. After a major works program involving more than 500 different network alterations and other activities across nine key regions among the most constrained parts of the network, Powercor's new solar connections export approval rate of just over 60% at the start of the year has increased to above 90%. Allows installation but has an export limit. Economically this probably Is not viable, as our electricity bill is fairly low. I also dont know if my meter has limiting but suspect not as it is a pretty dumb device. For example, I can see several Energex profiles that do things like limit export to differing amounts, turns on Volt-var without Volt-watt, or sets the power factor to 0.9. 100 litres alone means little, but if there are 100 litres per hour, this means 100 litre hours of output. Am I wrong? About CitiPower and Powercor FACT SHEET: SOLAR EXPORT APPROVAL Set appliances to use your solar power Maintenance and safety checks are important That is correct. Typically in the Powercor area, the export limit is 5kW of exports for each single-phase household solar PV system. I think that the limiter can connect only to one inverter and not two at the same time. 0000007057 00000 n Max. Ill upgrade the Endeavour Energy area from Ugly to Bad, since things are clearly not all bad there. But just note, not everyone Envoy has required bits to do export limiting. My AS4777.2:2015 profile allows voltages up to 265v (for short periods, and shuts down on 10 minute averages above 258v). Whilst this may not be technically defined as export limiting, as the inverter specifications, specify that the inverter, whilst allowing up to an overload factor of 2, will only generate up to 5kW of A/C power Hi Limited export means more power for home If your system has a limit on how much it can export then it means more power will get used in your home instead. Please stay on topic. If you can go outside and scream at the top of your lungs with no chance your neighbours will hear you, then theres a good chance you are off the main grid and face much stricter limits on exports. But if you suddenly switch off everything, there is more surplus solar power than youre allowed to export. As a general rule, 5kW tends to be the upper system size limit for single-phase connections, but some networks allow up to 10kW. We respect your privacy and you can opt out from the newsletter at any time. (Note: it is possible to install a larger system, say 10kW on a single phase property and meet the Powercor rules by export limiting the system . Im on a swer line in rural south Australia. No-one seems to have replied Dirk, so I will try. ), converting to a maximum of 5kW of AC power, whilst the GW10K-MS provides for up to 13.5kW of panels generating capacity, across three MPPTs (strings? The majority of customers are approved for the export level they request. This is often referred to as 'network constraints'. To give you example, you will probably find the profile you mention is probably throttling from a very low 250v and will ramp down to 20% at 265v. Definition A low voltage embedded generation connection in CitiPower and Powercor is defined as "an LV EG system with a total system capacity greater than 30kVA for a three-phase IES or non-IES (excluding ESS) network connection that is: ) The fact that export limiting is necessary is not a good thing. I think it is illegal in WA to rewire your inverter or modify any parameters, as it may result in more than 5kW being sent to the grid, so I will just bite the bullet and see that I use as much solar as possible. But still the solar companies keep trying to sell it to me.. I have an existing 3.5kW PV system with Solis inverter. So while the article suggests 10kW inverter ( 13.33kW DC) in fact the limit seemed to be 10kW DC ( hmmm what does 10kW generation mean exactly ?.) As your sister can presumably export as much power as her solar inverter can produce it wouldnt need this device. And, if a street full of these, plugs their cars into the grid, for recharging, starting the recharging between 1700 and 1800, lots of entertaining fireworks, along the street powerlines exploding. The good news is, even in a worst-case situation, the amount will be fairly minor. 100% So, I am pretty much left in the dark about whether all the energy my panels are theoretically producing is being utilised, or (which is my fearful assumption) up to 1.6kW are wasted whenever the panels produce more than 5kW AC. 0000039018 00000 n endstream endobj 351 0 obj <>/Filter/FlateDecode/Index[17 289]/Length 31/Size 306/Type/XRef/W[1 1 1]>>stream Please confirm the maximum export limit in the relevant section of this application.. 0000037380 00000 n Were continually investing in our networks and aim to keep customers informed if additional export capacity becomes available in their area. I think I was partially wrong about how my PV is connected to the home and the meter. Thus if my system is at maximum output, and I am using 2kW, only 3 kW is being exported to the grid. Installers must also follow the recommendations of the inverter manufacturer and they may say the limit for panel capacity is less than one-third more than the panels capacity. IE if Im producing 8KW, the house is using 2KW it will still export 5kw? 0000009573 00000 n 0000010603 00000 n Powercor is the Distributed Network Service Provider for central and western Victoria, as well as Melbournes western suburbs. 0 There are exceptions for off-grid installations and systems that are installed with a battery. It seems so strange that it is clear government policy to get more solar going and yet the network operators are effectively blocking it now. 0000004823 00000 n Put down your weapons.3. Upgrading the local electricity network so more businesses and households can export excess solar to share. I had applications rejected, and when I asked there was NO course for negotiation or discussion its the RULES is s synopsis of the responses. But depending on our network capacity, export constraints may influence the size of the unit they install. 0000008571 00000 n A condition of this basic connection offer is that all inverter energy systems must have the volt-watt and volt-var response modes enabled with the following settings: ), Finally understand, the article above is very well written for the layman Now, that would help protect electricity grids, especially, the fragile, decrepit SWIS grid, for the present. Youre using a total of four kilowatts to cook your lunch, so your home is exporting 4 kilowatts, which is below the limit. This means you tend to see panels at the end of strings shutdown soonest on voltage risk conditions, as they have the highest voltage rise being at the end of the string. so if I was correctly explained to, then I am limited to export less than 5kW (because my existing system will never produce 3.5kW), No installer (or their salepeople) is able to explain to me how the limiter is connected/set up in the scenario where I have 2 inverters. Hi All. Australian Rooftop Solar Powers Rise Astounding, But.. Australias Emissions: Electricity Down, Transport Up, Compare Feed-In Tariffs And Electricity Plans, Solar Export Limiting What It Is & Why Its Useful. 220 He's been reporting on Australian and international solar energy news ever since. 352 0 obj <>stream Thanks Ronald! I am not even sure the inverter would support that, but I fear that sadly up to 25% of the PV energy might be going to waste! But I can tell you a few things that might help with some of your pondering :- 1. Efficiency has and will improve further over time, but never to the point of perpetuity. I do NOT have a device in my meter box that could tell the inverter anything about consumption and feed in energy. As discussion of the topic of export limiting, is continuing, what,if any, is/are the direct effect differences to electricity grid load (as in the load on the wires, not the load as the term used for meaning demand), between a 5kW inverter, and a 10kW inverter with 5kW export limiting? (Although they will also allow an additional 5 kilowatts of battery inverter capacity.) %%EOF document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Download the first chapter of The Good Solar Guide, authored by SolarQuotes founder Finn Peacock, FREE! Now, there are quite a few profiles on offer that can be programmed into the microinverters. A Decent Battery From sonnen. I am surprised to hear that Powercor has allowed you to increase your exports, but that is good to hear. 0000011077 00000 n So it is unfortunate that it is necessary, but good that people can still install a larger system and generally have insignificant losses. ACTs EvoEnergy Network Area: Covers most homes in the ACT, especially in built-up areas. 2. I did get on the FiT in the early days for the 66cpkWh, but installed a separate system (which I have since incorporated into my stand-alone system. But there will often be times when the solar system will produce more power than can be exported, so some energy will be lost3. going back into the grid with no batteries. But a sub optimally configured grid sometimes forces installers into implementing setting that are probably less than ideal if the high voltage events in the grid were just occasions where there is too much generation and they do want have all generators throttle back to allow some time for rebalancing supply and demand. I was lucky to have an early approval, so limited to 10Kw (or due to bad calculation by the approver, 8.6Kw, where he said ALL the Neutral current went down the common Neutral wire, where in fact only the difference between the phases goes down the Neutral (2 phase, 180 degree). Under another option to . The Solar installer is telling me that they just started getting 0kW approvals back for about 9 out of 10 requests and so they dont believe they will be able to do many installs at all going forward. If you dont get under the covers and look carefully at the logs you might miss this, or think it is a cloud coming over, rather than voltage triggered throttling. 0000008043 00000 n 44% leading But if people send a lot of power into the line then the voltage at the far end, instead of being lower than at the sending end, becomes higher. is there a inverter that stops power going back Finally! driving range of 200km depending on ambient temperature. sonnenBatterie Evo. This seems to be becoming a big problem at least locally. How do I get around this with SAPN , am I allowed to export limit on a swer line in Sth Aust. But, if you are really keen, I suppose you could use a site such as PV Institutes Live PV Map to see how other solar systems in your general area are performing: Note that patchy cloud can produce a lot of variation in output. If we consider a home in Sydney where no electricity is used during the day, and all the solar panels face directly north, then the percentage of output that will be lost due to a 5 kilowatt export limit would be: So even in a worst-case situation for Sydney, an 8 kilowatt solar system that is exported limited to 5 kilowatts will only lose 4% of generation. We installed 4.5kw with a 5kw inverter in 2014. 10kW of inverters with 11.325kW of panels. If you use a pre AS4777.3:2005 the limits are probably even higher, but you loose some other features (like frequency ramping which is probably very sensible to have if you want to be a good grid citizen), and you probably are not supposed to run those unless it is a pre 2016 install. Weve got a system that can be left alone in my opinion, so adding say 6.6kw and a 10kw battery makes good sense but what a task. See image at http://www.johnrogers.com.au/battery_charging_noon.jpg, CORRECTION: My 13.25 kW system will not go above the 10 kW inverter limit unless my house battery is charging and then it can go to 13.25 kW. Would the gateway signal the micro inverters to shut down one at a time, or to all reduce output equally? Do you know the situation here? The good news is, if you had a total of 6.6 kilowatts of solar youd probably loose very little due to export limiting if you consume half the output of a 3 kilowatt system and can export 3 kilowatts. amended or replaced from time to time. In an Enphase system, that is with the Envoy-S with consumption monitoring. NSWs Ausgrid Network Area: This covers East Sydney, Newcastle, and out to Merriwa. Since in WA you cant have more than a 5kW inverter on a private residence, I believe there isnt actually export limiting in play, and the inverter itself clips the output AC regardless how much the panels are generating, sadly. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. It is delivering 8 kilowatts of solar power. 5kW export limiter imposed on one inverter. I installed 6.6kw solar panels and have Goodwe 5kw inverter and applied for export limit of 5kw. 0000028229 00000 n NSWs Endeavour Energy area: Western Sydney. So you may decide adding a second system is worthwhile, or you may want to put it off until your current system develops problems and replace it with one large new system. What inverter do you have? the system is set to export the maximum amount of power approved in our Solar Export Pre-Approval to you your obligations as the owner and operator of an 'embedded generator' exporting . AC Output Data Just last week, Powercor (Western Victoria) advised that they now have more room in the grid for export. It owns and operates the states largest electricity distribution network, and is responsible for more than half a million poles and over 88,000 kilometres of powerlines. As such, unless the investment pays for itself within at most 5-6 years, IMHO it is not a good investment/waste of money and natural resources. Does anyone know how the limiter works in this scenario with 2 inverters? Victoria's "Hotest" Solar Postcode is 3977 at last look. I am looking at adding a second system (6.2kW) with GoodWe inverter. given that we are working from home all the time these days. But your situation is complicated by already having a 3 kilowatt system. Of course, if you are planning to get an electric car, that has the potential to make a huge difference to your self consumption of solar power. Victorias CitiPower area: The Melbourne Central Business District. Can one have micro-inverter panels without a gateway, and how would that be limited? I got a question about export limiter that I hope to get some answers from the community. In my mind though the Smart meter at the box would adjust the export limit in line with what the house is consuming? Thanks Ron. If your solar company provides you with the Solar pre-approval (SPA) number for your pre-approval, we can check specifically what was decided on with regards to exporting. Seem most solar places, even the ones the go on about how good they are, arent that good when presented with this, what seems to be a conundrum for them. South Australian solar panel owners can currently export 5 kilowatts of electricity to the grid but under Flexible Exports, they could export double that amount 10kW. It is critical that you install an approved smart inverter and set it correctly. MPPT2 always shows better performance than MPPT, usually quite significantly better. 0000006578 00000 n Now, such a hybrid inverter, as I previously submitted as a post, as being needed, would have the capability of providing for up to 10kW of panels generating capacity, and, of power conversion of up to 10kW, to provide for up to 5kW to provide for charging a battery system, and, the other 5kW to provide for the household load and with surplus (to the household load, out of the 5kW provision) being exported to the grid. There are lots of variations to this theme, however. I have 13.25 kW of panels with a 9.8 kW LG Chem battery and a 10 kW inverter export limited to 5 kW. 0000038296 00000 n Amongst other things, AS4777.2015 has some requirements to shutdown on phase imbalance in a 3 phase setup. Please make sure you engage early with our team through eConnect to check on network capacity for your customers. So, if a contractor or tradesman, using one of these during the day, or, another type of worker, gets home after work, and, plugs one of these in to charge, an immediate drain of 7 kW (I believe that it is actually 7.4 kW), and immediate significant drain is imposed on the grid, for several hours, during peak demand. My solar installer applied to Powercor to install a 5.4kw system at my Point Cook address. just wondering if anybody can shed some light on the following, If your pumping needs are large enough this can pay for itself, but it will be expensive to set up. Im in regional WA with a rural 2 phase supply. Long term benefits would be a more energy efficient system. So if your home isnt currently drawing power you wont know from looking at the display if its capable of producing the maximum 5 kilowatts or if it cant provide more than 3 kilowatts. We respect your privacy and you can opt out from the newsletter at any time. Energex doesnt automatically allow inverters over 5 kilowatts to be installed with export limiting, but currently regularly grants permission for single-phase homes on the main grid to install up to 10 kilowatts of inverter capacity with export limiting.

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